Live Coaching Call, Part 1: Presli's Battle with Butter & Fear [Podcast Transcript]

Title: Live Coaching Call Part 1/2: Presli's Battle with Butter & Fear

Podcast Date: September 10, 2024

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Description 

Heather Creekmore shares a recording coaching session with her client, Presli, who has been working through the Body Image Freedom Framework online course. They discuss Presli's journey, including her past struggles with body image and her recent experience at a restaurant where she felt derailed by the presence of butter in her meal. They also touch on Presli's feelings of anger, fear, and the pressures of diet culture. Throughout their conversation, they explore how these emotions and thought patterns have impacted Presli's relationship with food and her body.

The episode also delves into the concept of the "gluttony of delicacy" (coined by C.S. Lewis) and the psychological impact of feeling like one has a special "life sentence" when it comes to food.

The conversation ends on a hopeful note as Presli shares her journey of learning to enjoy food without fear and how she's working towards a healthier relationship with her body. The episode offers insight and encouragement for anyone struggling with body image issues and diet culture pressures.

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New to the show? Learn more about Heather Creekmore, Heather's books, and the ministry of Compared to Who? at: www.improvebodyimage.com

Ready for real body image change? The 40-Day Journey begins soon. Learn more here: https://www.improvebodyimage.com/40-day-challenge

Heather Creekmore [00:00:04]:

Hey there, friend. Heather Creekmore. I'm glad you're listening to the Compare To Who Show today. Today, I'm continuing coaching with my client, Presli. Now I have coached Presli on 4 other podcast episodes. So if you are new to the show and wanna hear a little bit more about Presli's journey and kinda where we started,

Heather Creekmore [00:00:25]:

you can go look up those shows. I'll have links to those in the show notes. But for now, Presli and I are just kinda talking through where she's at. Presli is going through the Body Image Freedom framework, and she's been part of the 40 day journey now twice. And she's just working on her stuff, and she's doing great. And she couldn't wait for us to have a session so she could tell me about what happened when she went to a restaurant and her meal did not look like it was supposed to look. It did not fit her diet plan.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:00]:

Oh, y'all, if you've ever been on a diet and eaten out, you've probably had this happen. So this is so relatable, and it's a humorous story in hindsight. But when you're there, oh goodness, it hurts. So I think you're gonna enjoy the session Presli and I have where we kinda just talk through where she's at now as she digs into her own body image issues. Hey. Thanks for listening to the show today. If you want to get coaching like Presli, know that that is available.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:32]:

You can go to improve body image.com, and you can learn about all the stuff we have to offer. There are hundreds of podcast episodes. So if you're brand new here, hey. Like, there's lots of content for you to check out. But we also have coaching. I've written several books. I have a brand new book on aging. If you are over 45, this book is for you.

Heather Creekmore [00:01:53]:

My 40 day body image workbook is what we use for the 40 day journey. There's a body image freedom framework course. I've also written a book on comparison. And my story is in my book called Compare to Who. I've got devotionals on YouVersion, like, just lots and lots of stuff for you. If body image is your thing, connect with us, get on our mailing list, get on our friends list, and we've got hope and help that you need. Hey, I'm glad you're here. Let's get to this coaching session with Presli.

Heather Creekmore [00:02:30]:

Welcome to Compare To Who, the podcast to help you make peace with your body so you can favor God's rest and feel His love. If you're tired of fighting body image the world's way, Compare To Who is the show for you. You've likely heard lots of talk about loving your body, but my goal is different. Striving to fall in love with stretch marks and cellulite is a little silly to me. Instead, I want to encourage you and remind you with the truth of scripture that you are seen, you are known, and you are loved no matter what your size or shape. Here, the pressure is off. If you're looking for real talk, biblical encouragement, and regular reminders that God loves you and you're not alone, you've come to

Heather Creekmore [00:03:09]:

the right place. I hope you enjoy today's show, and, hey, tell a friend about it. Presli, how have you been since our last conversation?

Presli [00:03:21]:

I'm pretty good. Pretty good. It's been a while.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:26]:

Yeah. It's been 3 months maybe? It's been a while.

Presli [00:03:31]:

Seems like a lifetime.

Heather Creekmore [00:03:33]:

Yeah. Well, you've been involved. You went through the 40 days journey twice, and you've been participating in some other coaching while you work through the Body Image Freedom framework online course. Like, where do you feel like you're at today?

Presli [00:03:51]:

I was thinking back when we first started, and I feel like back then, I was looking for something or someone to blame for all the issues.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:00]:

Okay.

Presli [00:04:01]:

And, yeah. Or and then, like, also, I felt like I was looking for something or someone for a solution. 

Heather Creekmore [00:04:11]:

Yeah.

Presli [00:04:12]:

Yeah. So now I definitely don't feel like my solution is in any person and it’s not any fault of anyone’s. So I feel like I grew up a little bit.

Heather Creekmore [00:04:25]:

Yeah. I love that you said that, grew up a little bit. I kinda tell people that all the time. Like, hey. We might have to grow up a little. So and not in a mean way, but, like, I think that's what God wants of us, right, to grow up.

Presli [00:04:40]:

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm totally an infant in Christ. I mean, just like a little baby. 

Heather Creekmore [00:04:51]:

I think that's part of the maturity process too is I think maturity is understanding. Oh my goodness. I thought I'd come so far, and maybe I have a lot further to go. Right? And I think that's something that happens a lot with my clients where it's like, I've been following the Lord for 20 or 30 or 40 years. I mean, I know that's not your story, but I guess you're not that old. Like, I talk to women that are like, I've been following them for 40 years, and I feel like I'm starting over. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's exciting that you're already kind of sensing your desire and need to mature. And, goodness, in 40 years, you can have a completely different story. So I love that.

Presli [00:05:39]:

Oh, I sure hope so. It's definitely a journey, like, from beginning to end. Like, you start out thinking you know what you're looking for, and it's totally different than the solution.

Heather Creekmore [00:05:54]:

What did you think you were looking for?

Presli [00:05:57]:

Maybe, like, the thing that would fix me and make me be able to eat right or not be an emotional eater or not be someone who hates the way they look in clothes or, like, hates the way I look in pictures or just is concerned about it. But I thought the solution to that was looking perfect. Yeah. And then if I look perfect, then I won't have any of those issues.

Heather Creekmore [00:06:24]:

Right. An external solution. Yeah. What do you believe now?

Presli [00:06:33]:

So yeah. I think definitely the part that has to do with me is surrender, but it feels like changing my economy and aligning it with God's economy. It's like a continual every day, every second, every photo, every interaction type of thing. Every time I get dressed type of thing, like and I have to, like, learn those values and keep putting off my old thought patterns, and I still get stuck. And I have, like, 1 foot in the world and 1 foot in what I know is right. And then I'm like, dang it. Why am I doing that again?

Heather Creekmore [00:07:18]:

Yeah. I think that's very normal. And I think that's also it's a reminder, I think, that flies in the face of what diet culture promises. Right? Because diet culture kind of promises that you'll have an after where you won't have this, like, renewed daily struggle. Right? You're just gonna become an after picture and you just stay there for forever, like, in this glorious blissful place. Now reality is, like, anyone who's been an after picture knows they don't stay there. Right? Like, I remember the Oprah Winfrey special last spring, she talked about how she, like, did her big dramatic, like pulling her wagon of fat across the stage.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:05]:

And she was like, I started gaining weight the next day. Right? So there she was an “after”, but she couldn't even stay an “after” for a day. And I know that story is so common. But I think we kind of all long for this place where we'll be able to rest and just stay there and not have to worry about it every day. And that's just not what the human existence is like. And, and especially, it's not what I think the life of faith is. Right? It's take up your cross daily, renew your mind daily.

Heather Creekmore [00:08:42]:

It is a daily process of surrendering. Oh, not my will, but your will be done, God. And oh, yeah. It takes more. I'm not going to say work because work makes it sound like works based, if you will. Like, you just do the things and if you do the things good enough, then you get the result. Because I don't think that's accurate. But I just think it takes intentionality, maybe is a good word or, you have to really, I think back to like Rick Warren wrote this book called Purpose Driven Life a very long time ago.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:23]:

And it's like, in some ways, every day you have to wake up and be like, okay, what's my goal? What am I living for? What's my ultimate reason for today? And surrender all that is selfish and would have motivated before and lay it all down.

Heather Creekmore [00:09:45]:

Say okay, God, what do you want for me today? What do you have for me today? So, Presli, as we kind of process, like the ways that you have, maybe come to see things differently, there's a story you told me about butter and the restaurant. 

Presli [00:10:09]:

Oh yes, the butter.

Heather Creekmore [00:10:11]:

The great butter debacle of 2022. Would you mind sharing that?

Presli [00:10:26]:

Okay. So we had just moved to South Africa, and we were excited to try new restaurants and all the things here. But, when you're counting calories and you're dieting, that can make it very complicated and kind of suck the joy right out of everything. So I had my fitness pal ready, and I was gonna, you know, log my meal there at the restaurant was called Mozambique, and I ordered, grilled fish and grilled shrimp because I thought that would be perfect. I can figure that out. And then it arrives at the table, and literally every part of my meal is drenched in butter. Like, it's in bowls, and it's drenched in butter. And I immediately have a nervous breakdown.

Presli [00:11:14]:

And my husband, I can see him. He starts sweating, and he's just looking at me wide eyed and miserable and waiting to see, like, how bad am I gonna blow up. And I was like, had such a bad attitude about it. Like, this is ridiculous. Who could eat this? Like, nobody could afford to eat this. Like, this is ridiculous. And my husband said it just ruined the whole time. My husband said he never wants to go back to that restaurant.

Presli [00:11:38]:

Literally, every time we pass it on the highway he says, I never wanna go there. That was so horrible.

Heather Creekmore [00:11:43]:

He has PTSD from the great butter debacle of 2022.

Presli [00:11:49]:

Yeah. I ruined it for everyone. I just, I wanted him to go and strangle the manager for serving that type of food. And now, like, looking back, it's so embarrassing. But, that delicacy thing.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:02]:

Yeah. The gluttony of delicacy that CS Lewis talks about. 

Presli [00:12:08]:

That was real.

Heather Creekmore [00:12:10]:

Yeah. Well, thanks so much for sharing that. And I'm glad you're to the place now where you can laugh about it. And I just want anyone listening to understand that, like, if that was you yesterday, like, no shame or blame coming from either of these two girls here because we have been there. And it's real. I mean, what do you think you were, what do you think you were feeling really at the time? Like, have you been able to process it at all? Because I know you mentioned it to me a little while ago, so I know you've thought about it. What do you think was actually going on inside of you?

Presli [00:12:46]:

Yeah. So I think I immediately felt derailed. I was like, this is gonna put me off for my goals. I was really, I was really hoping to meet a size goal. I wanted to fit into certain pants because I thought when I'm this size, then I'll be content and satisfied and everything will be perfect. And I thought this is gonna set me back, and this is just, I can't account for this.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:21]:

Mhmm.

Presli [00:13:21]:

And it just made me feel insecure and out of control. I felt like it was gonna cost me my control.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:32]:

Yeah. I'm also thinking that you felt afraid.

Presli [00:13:38]:

Yeah. Right? Definitely.

Heather Creekmore [00:13:39]:

Like butter was scary because it was gonna jeopardize your goal and set you back. And I'm gonna guess that somehow probably your day, the way you've eaten all day, you probably had kind of planned around having a big nice meal. And so maybe you went into that scenario over hungry or a little deprived because this was gonna be your big, your big splurge of the day.

Presli [00:14:09]:

Absolutely. 

Heather Creekmore [00:14:10]:

And then you didn't have an option. What could you eat? I mean, Presli, like, I have done this so many times. I really have. So I absolutely, again, no shame. Like, I remember just being infuriated looking at a restaurant menu, thinking like, just being angry with my husband or whom I'm everywhere with, like, didn't anyone consider what can I eat? I can't eat any of that. And it's so funny because it is so like, in some ways it was just so normative.

Heather Creekmore [00:14:41]:

Right? Like, that was just the normal way of processing. Now you mentioned the gluttony of delicacy, and let me kinda fill that out for anyone who's curious. So CS Lewis in his book Screwtape Letters, which is, it's letters from a demon uncle advisor to a younger demon. And he actually kind of exposes this concept that often we're, like, happy to talk about gluttony as just being, like, over indulgence. But the gluttony of delicacy is the kind of gluttony, which is really the, I think, the heart of all gluttony, that's self centered. Right? And so in the gluttony of delicacy, you're so self centered that you are offended and appalled when people offer you food hospitably. Right? When they're graciously, like, serving you delicious things, you're like, I couldn't possibly. Like, how dare you? But it's a real thing.

Presli [00:15:48]:

That reminds me of asking my mother-in-law when she, we had just moved here again, and she was spoiling us with all the nice food and making nice food for us. And me asking her how many calories was in something that she made. And that the whole thing was just, like, outlandish to her. “How many what?”

Presli [00:16:05]:

And I was, like, not embarrassed at all. And I was, like, how could y'all be eating food, and you don't even know the calories? Like, y'all are irresponsible. Do y'all have any goals for yourself? It's so bad.

Heather Creekmore [00:16:18]:

Yeah. It's so interesting how so much of our lives become consumed with, like, dieting and dieting principles and calories and thinking about food that we almost don't even notice how it spills over into relationships. Like you said with your mother-in-law, like asking about calories and, like, just normal activities, like going out to eat. I mean, I have had lots and lots of clients over the years who would confess that they always turn down to go out to meals or to go to other people's home for meals because they didn't know what was gonna be served and they didn't know if they could eat anything. Food really becomes the center of our lives.

Presli [00:17:11]:

Yeah. It really does.

Heather Creekmore [00:17:14]:

So how have things changed for you?

Presli [00:17:18]:

So I feel like I have really been able to enjoy food and going out with other people or accepting invitations without worrying about food anymore. But I noticed I was running into, like, this black and white thinking pattern, because I tend to be a black and white thinker. And believing that if I'm learning to let go of my ideals from my body goals, then that means I'm I just let myself go and, like, all my, I'm not saying health goals, but, like, then I just kinda do whatever I want, like, going one way or the other, like, just eating everything because I can and because it's available and not really listening to my body or even really knowing what that meant to begin with about what feels good. And now, like, I'm learning that ice cream right before bed doesn't feel great, and I don't sleep good.

Presli [00:18:23]:

I mean, it tastes good, but it doesn't feel good. And I was confused about, you know, taste and what feels good and tastes good. I think that just goes into black and white thinking.

Heather Creekmore [00:18:36]:

Yeah. And I think that's absolutely normal too, Presli. For me and for so many that I've talked to, it's like you almost have to let the pendulum go all the way from where you're angry over butter in a restaurant. All the way to, I eat anything anytime I want to. Nothing scares me. I'm not afraid of anything. I'm, you know, everything is good all the time to then settle back into a place of, okay, now what is actually good for me? Right? Because it's not like every principle from diet culture or from culture at large about health and the way to eat.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:16]:

Every principle isn't wrong. Every principle doesn't have to be thrown away. It's not all garbage. Right? And I do think that there are some in this space that'll say it's all garbage, but no, like, there's wisdom. Right? Like, if you don't eat enough, if you don't eat fruits and vegetables, like, your body is gonna have a harder time. Right? Like, there's definite wisdom to some of the principles out there. I think the problem is there's just been so many, and they've been bondage. Right? It's like, it's really your restaurant illustration.

Heather Creekmore [00:19:53]:

Right? Like, let's take this to, like, time as a separate illustration. Right? We all know that we should be good stewards of our time. Right?

Presli [00:20:04]:

Right.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:04]:

I should probably not spend 3 hours a night scrolling Instagram. That's not being a good steward of my time. At the end of doing that, I'm not gonna feel very good. Right? But I don't tend to get legalistic around time. Right? Like, I might go to bed and be like, man, I feel like that was kind of a cruddy way to spend my night. But I'm not gonna wake up the next morning, like, I can't believe I spent 3 hours on Instagram yesterday. And I'm not gonna, like, for the next week be trying to, like, make up for it in my time where it's like, oh, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do anything with social media this week because I already spent 3 hours. Right? Like, I don't try to compensate for it.

Heather Creekmore [00:20:47]:

I don't like walk around my house feeling guilty or like, well, I shouldn't even open my phone because I already spent 3 hours. Like, it's just, and yet it should be the same. Right? But I don't hold so tightly to these rules around my time and being a good steward of my time. Oh, but food. Oh, but body. Right? Like, it's completely different.

Presli [00:21:14]:

That's the stuff.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:16]:

Yeah. So I wanna, like, backtrack just for a second. One of your responses at the restaurant in the great butter debacle of 2022 was anger.

Presli [00:21:31]:

Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:21:32]:

Right? And you were honest in talking to me about this earlier, just like you said it a minute ago. Like, you were like, why isn't my husband going back to, like, strangle the cook for cooking food in this way? Right? What do you think that anger was?

Presli [00:21:52]:

So, yeah, the anger. I feel like the anger is like, can't you see what I'm trying to do, and why is no one supporting me? And, you know, this is something I need to do for myself. And I don't know if it's related, but I would also feel angry when people would be enjoying their food and their lives, and it seemed like they weren't chasing a goal. And I was like, how come you just get to, you know, be enjoying life, and I have to be on a diet, or I have to be worried about this butter right now?

Heather Creekmore [00:22:36]:

Yeah.

Presli [00:22:36]:

Why can't I just eat and live? And, yeah, I don't know what's really behind that. 

Heather Creekmore [00:22:44]:

Yeah. Well, so, yeah, there's a couple of things here. Let me just talk about what you just said first, though. It's almost like you have a special life sentence. Right? Like a special prison. Like, all you people are free, but because I'm special and not necessarily in a good way. Right? Like, we feel like it's bondage. Right? But I have this special life sentence that I have to carry.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:12]:

And that life sentence is, I always have to be careful about food because of the way my body will respond to it. And it's funny, I think a lot of times this will come up even like between genders. Right? Like women carry this life sentence whereas men don't. Right? Or, you know, so you can go to the party and the men can eat, but the women, we’re not allowed to do that. Like, it's just understood. You know? So when someone's handing out cake at the birthday party, like, all the men can take a piece. That's fine.

Heather Creekmore [00:23:47]:

But the women, we, you know oh, I shouldn't oh, and if you're gonna take a piece, you have to do what? You have to say, oh, just a small one. Or, oh, I've been good all week so I can have it. Right? Whereas a man's just like, yeah sure, I'll take a piece of cake. Cake? No cake? It's not a life or death decision. I'm not offended that you asked me, you know.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:11]:

And so there is this interesting kinda psychological, like, I wonder why we've given ourselves - it's a diagnosis of sorts. Right? Like, me and my body have to have this kind of life sentence. We have to be in this prison because this is what we deserve. And for some it's, this is what we've, this is the road that we've been on, and so we just ended up here. This is our penance. Right? We have to pay for the sins of our past. Right? Or we just have always been paying for the sins of our past. And and in some ways, I think that might be from our moms.

Heather Creekmore [00:24:57]:

Right? Like, mom had to pay, and so I'm still paying kinda like a generational payment kind of thing. And then for others, I think it's just like, I've just never felt good enough. So maybe if I could just pay this sentence, then I would feel like maybe I'm good enough. What of all of that, if anything, or maybe there's something else, like, is any of that ringing true for the, like, why only Presli has to eat this way and everyone else at Mozambique can enjoy the food at the restaurant? What do you think rings true for you?

Presli [00:25:35]:

Yeah. I think that the aggravation comes in, like, yeah, why do I have to do this? It sucks. Like, this is my lot in life that in order to be acceptable, I have to follow these rules and other people, you know, don't. They just get it. But, I mean, I'm growing from that now, but, like, I can see that that is the secret mindset. And I wrote in my journal from module 9, it was asking about the fear and where does the fear come from and, like, what are lies I’m believing? And I was saying, like, I believe that smaller women experience life brighter. And I don't know why I came up with that, but that was just what I thought.

Presli [00:26:29]:

Like, smaller women will get better experiences of life, and they'll enjoy moments more, and they'll have more full and satisfying life experiences than a bigger girl would or a bigger boned girl or, as I heard once, a “corn fed” girl, would have. Yeah.

Heather Creekmore [00:26:49]:

Yeah. Where do you think you got that idea? 

Heather Creekmore [00:26:53]:

Hey! So I'm gonna leave you hanging there. Presli and I will continue this conversation in Friday's episode where she'll answer the question, and we'll dig more into how she's been doing on her body image journey. My prayer is that listening to Presli's body image journey will encourage your own body image freedom journey no matter where you're at. I hope that through hearing Presli and I interact around her specific struggles, you'll feel some sense of encouragement. Maybe you feel a sense of normalcy like, oh, yeah. I've done that. I thought that. But more so, I hope you will see that there is great hope and help for you no matter how you're struggling with body image today.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:31]:

Go to improve body image.com. Figure out how you might take your next best step towards body image freedom. I think that's probably joining us on the 40 day journey, even though we've already started. But at least grab the book, and you can plan on joining us next time. But I'm glad you were here today. Come back next time, and you can hear the second part of this great coaching session. I have something today that helps you stop comparing and start living. And, hey, did I mention that we have cute shirts? Yes.

Heather Creekmore [00:27:58]:

We do. We have cute compared to who tanks and tees on Etsy now. They are just super fun to wear, and people are always like, compared to who? Oh, that's really clever. I guess I should stop comparing myself. So go check that out on Etsy. The shop is called Compared to Who. Thanks for listening again today. We'll catch you next time.